| Author | Topic: The Spiritual Church (Read 166 times) |
kirk Full Member
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Joined: Sept 2008 Posts: 201 Karma: -1 |  | The Spiritual Church « Thread Started on Jan 5, 2009, 2:31am » | |
The Spiritual Church
By Kirk W. Fraser
The true church like God is Spirit. The church is our direct relationship with Him, expressed in blessings, praises, prayers, thanksgivings, visions, and all other transactions releasing the Spirit from God shared through mankind. The organization of the church according to Jesus in Matthew 23:8-10 is equality of the believers under Jesus which means Jesus is our one true Boss and leader. We get our direction directly from the Holy Spirit of Truth which Jesus sent as our Comforter as He went to heaven to be with the Father. Jesus’ leadership of the body of His believers involves operations leading to completion of His purpose to build students into apostles, apostles into overcomers, overcomers into the manchild, and the manchild into the New Jerusalem, His Bride.
Traditional churches are often defined by their subset of Biblical beliefs, corporate charter, buildings, pastors, elders, deacons, and other things than the members and their relationship with God. At best they’re a combination of the spiritual and the material system of the world making them prostituted. Paul taught the future Catholics in Romans it's a duty to donate, directly contradicting Jesus who said freely you have received freely give, you can't serve God and mammon, and the children of the bride chamber are free. Thus Paul is the father of all the prostitutes of the earth: giant Catholicism and those born of her during the Reformation and afterward (Rev. 17:5). Our duty as believers in Rev. 18:4 is to come out of them so we don’t suffer their plagues.
What should we come out to? Searching Jesus’ words as our standard, we find whenever 2 or 3 are gathered in His name, He is there in our midst. That is His standard for spiritual church meetings for whenever such a small group meets, even vast differences in age, education, or skills don’t hinder mutual fellowship as equals. A child listens to its parents, the parents to the child, and each other. Perhaps we can increase the number but we shouldn’t lose the essential ingredients of spiritual fellowship among equals in Jesus’ name. And we certainly shouldn’t do things that prostitute the church. Anything material can become a form of idolatry with some paying attention to say refreshments, buildings, or other services to the group, robbing people of their equality under Jesus which endangers their faith in their direct connection to and fellowship with God.
To spread the church worldwide which is a requirement before for the end time ascension or rapture, we should follow Jesus’ example in calling 12 to follow Him, train them for 3.5 years in the spirit and word of the Gospel then ask the Father to send laborers into the harvest which when sent makes them apostles, to go repeat the pattern of calling 12 and training them. This can cover all nations in 35 years.
When a person has started a church they can help correcting church problems as Rev. 2-3 tells us, progressing on until the members start new church meetings. This does not violate the principle of equality of the members but the church founder helps the newer believers based on the wisdom and life from deeper contact with the Father -- instead of mere age or authority of hierarchy called Nicolaitane (above laity) in Rev. 2. The tendency of worldly people to reject equality for authority is a problem that must be overcome before churches progress to Rev. 3.
Opposition comes from defenders of traditional churches who say they or Paul shouldn’t be critiqued or criticized. So we must see the major New Testament ministries on a number line with Satan on the left, Jesus on the right, and Paul at zero. Obviously we must move as far as possible to the right, to churches run by the right power of Spirit through prayer instead of the left's prostituting powers of money and hierarchy. Other opposition: some are uncomfortable in public speaking – most people can start speaking in a meeting of 2 or 3. For people uncomfortable being confronted with different ideas – believers in Jesus will hear His voice in anyone speaking with a pure heart – others need to hear the gospel.
For more information see http://prayer_child.tripod.com and read your Bible with prayerfully open eyes.
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Babi Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #1 on Jan 5, 2009, 8:07am » | |
And these moral rules transcend all institutions of religion do they not?
The Ten Commandments
I. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me!
II. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain!
III. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day!
IV. Honor your father and your mother!
V. You shall not kill!
VI. You shall not commit adultery!
VII. You shall not steal!
VIII. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor!
IX. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife!
X. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods!
Follow these rules on a daily basis and you are good to go on your day of atonement.
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Love God Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #2 on Jan 5, 2009, 9:32am » | |
You left out Jesus' two commandments He said were most important.
1) Love God. 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.
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Babi Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #3 on Jan 5, 2009, 10:02am » | |
Jan 5, 2009, 9:32am, Love God wrote:You left out Jesus' two commandments He said were most important.
1) Love God. 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. |
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The ten that are there will suffice just fine.
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Love God Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #4 on Jan 5, 2009, 10:15am » | |
I can see it now, after death .... whines, "I'm melting, I'm melting," as his soul is tormented in the lake of fire or some other firey location for not loving God first and his neighbor likewise.
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Guest Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #5 on Jan 5, 2009, 11:05am » | |
Blabi and the Clatskanie Kook hand in hand.
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Anon Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #6 on Jan 5, 2009, 11:21am » | |
Jan 5, 2009, 11:05am, Guest wrote:| Blabi and the Clatskanie Kook hand in hand. |
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Yeah? Now that you mention it they do seem like an odd couple for sure. You think McGee has got errr...designs on Fraser? They're both a couple of snake dancers, and this...this ...this McGee, whoever he is, isn't from here, he's from some southern shithole where the regional pastime is to go out in the woods, strip down to the underpants then twist some guy's ear and tell him to "squeal like a pig"
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Guest Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #7 on Jan 5, 2009, 12:59pm » | |
Yeah, those two are the models for love and forgiveness aren't they? This is why I don't trust anyone that says they are Christians.
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Babi Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #8 on Jan 5, 2009, 2:49pm » | |
Jan 5, 2009, 12:59pm, Guest wrote:| Yeah, those two are the models for love and forgiveness aren't they? This is why I don't trust anyone that says they are Christians. |
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.... is not a Christian.
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aoxxoa Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #9 on Jan 5, 2009, 7:05pm » | |
Jan 5, 2009, 2:49pm, .... wrote: Jan 5, 2009, 12:59pm, Guest wrote:| Yeah, those two are the models for love and forgiveness aren't they? This is why I don't trust anyone that says they are Christians. |
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.... is not a Christian. |
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You're a legend in your own mind, McGee.
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Babi Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #10 on Jan 6, 2009, 8:57am » | |
Jan 5, 2009, 7:05pm, aoxxoa wrote:
And you're still a "Nobody" but, I'll pass your compliment to Mr. McGee
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unwanted Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #11 on Jan 6, 2009, 9:31am » | |
Jan 6, 2009, 8:57am, .... wrote:| I'll pass your compliment to Mr. McGee |
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teeheeheeheee....okay, McGe...err, I mean .......you..teeheeheehee, pass that along.
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Babi Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #12 on Jan 6, 2009, 10:03am » | |
Jan 6, 2009, 9:31am, unwanted wrote: Jan 6, 2009, 8:57am, .... wrote:| I'll pass your compliment to Mr. McGee |
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teeheeheeheee....okay, McGe...err, I mean .......you..teeheeheehee, pass that along. |
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I will. teeheeheehee...er....hick!!!...teeheeheehee!!!!!!
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rick Smolt
 member is offline
Joined: Mar 2008 Gender: Male  Posts: 37 Karma: 0 |  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #13 on Jan 6, 2009, 9:20pm » | |
Christians (especially Lutherans and other Protestant christians) believes that Salvations comes by Faith alone. This is how we (to the best of our limited ability) carry out the 10 commandments and the two commandments of Jesus in unity along with the scriptural laws. Not to effect salvation but reflect it.
As you read through all the chapters of Romans, we learn that we are dead in sin because we are not pure and we fail in our thoughts, in our words and in our deeds. By even thinking a thought that in contridiction to the scriptures or even the thought of how you would want to "get in bed with that cute woman" can very well be a sin especially when the thoughts are of adulterous thoughts like sex outside of marriage. Knowing we all fail and what we deserve is NOTHING - God sent His Only Begotten Son to die for our sins and His resurrection is the conquering of death and sin and the road to everlasting life.
Read all the chapters of Romans - take note of chapter 3 through 10.
When does salvation come?
Romans 10 (New International Version)
Romans 10 1Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them."[a] 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'[b]" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'[c]" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[d] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[f]
14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"[g]
16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"[h] 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world."[i] 19Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, "I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding."[j] 20And Isaiah boldly says, "I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."[k] 21But concerning Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people."
In this passage (Romans 10), take note of verse 5 and 15.
What does this mean to you?
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guest Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #14 on Jan 8, 2009, 6:44am » | |
What do you mean? Who is you - anyone? Are you sure Lutherans have a clue? One Lutheran friend says they're now submitting to Catholicism i.e. the Pope. Another Lutheran friend left his church but has home meetings where he says the sheep need him to shepherd. Neither seems Biblically correct. Are you any better?
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The Bob Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #15 on Jan 8, 2009, 8:29am » | |
And then there's old Joe Smith who says he found seven pieces of a golden tablet written by one of the lost tribes of Israel(Native Americans) in a hillside in Elmira, New York State and founded another religeous institution....Mormonism and wrote his own book rules, "The Book Of Mormon".
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Babi Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #16 on Jan 8, 2009, 11:11am » | |
And then there's old Warren Davis,who always wondered wondered who, who oooh, who wrote the Book Of Love and wound up with a hit song back in the late 1950s.
Tell me, tell me, tell me Oh, who wrote the Book Of Love I've got to know the answer Was it someone from above (Joe Smith)?)
(Chapter One says to love her) (You love her with all your heart) (Chapter Two you tell her you're) (Never, never, never, never, never gonna part) (In Chapter Three remember the meaning of romance) (In Chapter Four you break up) (But you give her just one more chance)
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And then of course Guest
|  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #17 on Jan 8, 2009, 10:37pm » | |
There are us athiests...who get to write about alot of other things cause reprinting the scriptures doesn't take up all our time.
Until I see concrete proof of a god, I chose not to believe there is one. Faith alone doesn't do it for me. Nor does "look around you and see his splendor" because I'm a firm believer in evolution.
I won't infringe on your forum again, just had to insert my two cents.
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kirk Full Member
   member is offline
Joined: Sept 2008 Posts: 201 Karma: -1 |  | Re: The Spiritual Church « Reply #18 on Jan 8, 2009, 11:35pm » | |
No "of course" - people don't HAVE to be unAmerican by disbelief in God. The logic of Jesus' absolute perfection is clear. If you believe there is a human more perfect than you, you should try to become like him. If you don't believe, you will become imperfect by default. So it is logical to believe Jesus is God and illogical to disbelieve.
Genuine pure hearted athiests will recognize this logic needing only a spiritual experience to believe. Prayer to God asking to help you believe, loving God, obeying His commands, intuition, and other spiritual exercises can lead to actual spiritual experiences. These can be as amazing as Jesus' own miacle experiences and even more is possible as He promised.
Unfortunately there are also impure Atheists, shall we say second grade Demonrats. Some of these are so evil they will try to convert Christians to Atheism. Hell is their future.
Which are you?
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